The Gannett editorialists today call former Oshkosh Area School District Board of Education member Dan Becker the "$20,000 Recount Guy." They claim Becker is now "virtually unelectable."
I don't think the $20,000 recount fee makes Becker unelectable. The public will forgive, maybe even praise, someone who fought to make sure every vote was counted and ran up whatever bill necessary to do so. The problem is that it is not clear that Becker wanted every vote counted--I'm still shocked that he even suggested that the votes of an entire district should be thrown out due to a technicality. If anything would make him unelectable it would be THAT.
Would you vote for someone who might later ask that your vote be thrown out because a ballot bag was not properly signed? I think a candidate asking for such an extreme measure would remain unelectable until he acknowledges a serious lapse in judgement and apologizes to the voters for it.
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I'd call any such apology too little too late, if you read the minutes it appears there were many opportunities to use better judgement and not have votes thrown out. What about the votes that were thrown out for old people who always vote absentee but the clerks couldn't find their application? The people had a valid ballot, how could they get one if not from the town clerk? Why should there vote be thrown out because a 10 year old application couldn't be located? These are people who always vote and in this election there vote wasn't counted. I think an apology way after the fact to make oneself more "electable" sure wouldn't work with me.
My thought would be his inconsistnecy (rather than his spending on the recount) would make him "unelectable", although I would contend that it creates more of a credibility issue rather than one of electability, although I suppose one can go hand in hand with the other.
Regardless, I think TNW maybe went a bit far, but they raise a good point: Dan Becker is a man who claimed to "want to count every vote" and then attempted to exclude every vote he possibly could on technicalities. He also pinched every penny and said he was looking out for the good of the taxpayer (usually at the expense of the students) while serving on the board, but when it came to spending OASD money on a recount prolonged soley by his repeated objections, he seemed to lose interest in the well-being of the taxpayer.
Inconsistency without valid explanation is what would hurt his credibility in another election, but I highly doubt it makes him "unelectable". As we've seen in Washington, anything can happen...
*sigh*
Stew and The NW have that fixation with Voting People Off the Island, remember? The obssession with saying who gets to play and who doesn't? Seems familiar, I think. Poor thing really can't help himself.
But it doesn't mean anything unless you let it.
Anything that can batter and bruise and berate will always have play on blog sites and with anonymous posters. It is their only entertainment. They were born too late..these same folks would have had a blast during days of the Roman Empire, the games at the ole'coliseum watching with baited breath, for the moment that their fellow man is torn to shreds by a hungry lion!
Wait for people, with reality t.v., you maybe able to quench your blood thirst right from the comfort of the Barco lounger (the one that is glued to your backside)
Keeper of the Flame
Pardon me, KOTF, but I think the three previous posts all agreed with Tony that perhaps the Northwestern went too far. None of them "threw anyone to the lions", but rather (as Tony did above) pointed out rational and factual flaws in both the reasoning of the Northwestern and Mr. Becker, as well as expressed our personal views in reasoned and semi-intelligent fashion.
How sad that while some long for an adult dialogue, others (like Keeper of the Flame) feel it necessary to crawl on the bellies into the depths of ignorance with demeaning commentary.
KOTF sure knows how to turn a phrase. Who would know better than waiting with baited breath and having a thirst for seeing their fellow man torn to shreds by a hungry lion than they?
Anonymous 4:01 is certainly correct to refer to anything Tony posts as "semi-intelligent." He's like Hentz with a doctorate degree.
You're a riot!
Why is it merely human error when talking about election day oversights, but Mr. Becker isn't afforded the same graciousness. We seem to have forgotten that he is human and as such prone to emotions, tensions, and stressors that make the best people behave questionable. It is moot to ask, and there is no honest way to get a truthful answer, but how would you react under those circumstances? Don't answer that, it is an impossible question because NONE OF US know all the circumstances surround Mr. Becker's judgments.
Minor goof, Tony. The single bag did not constutue and entire district. It did, however amount to 3% of the total ballots cast and 0.5% of the total eligible voter population.
I would challenge people to chew on that but after the garbage fee vote, I can see whay no one wastes their time at the polls. It really is a waste of time.
What I thought was amusing about the editorial was the reference to a lesson. What exacly is the lesson here? Don't rock the boat? Don't buck the system? Don't question electoral process? Don't ask that your rights be protected, enforced, or acknowledged because a few (I stress few) people will piss and moan? How about the lesson of not being part of the popular group at the Northwestern?
I think the dollar amount was exhorbitant, but I blame the district. Apparently, in wee little Oshkosh, OASD thinks we need and can afford the most expensive attorney. Ever hear of a budget??? According to other posts, OASD's attorney presence was OPTIONAL and the expense is covered with something Teresa Thiel called a "savings account" of around $10 million, so what's the big deal. The kids aren't going to get short-changed, I think Thiel would know, she was on the board not to long ago.
The reality is, there were more people calling WOSH and writing the Northwestern about a cat obituary than a school board recount. The city just does not care what is done with their taxdollars. If it did there would have been far more than an ALMOST 20% turnout on election day.
Anon, the lawyer's presence was optional but the city clerk has stated an attorney is always present. I doubt Mr. Renning was the most expensive lawyer around. Lawyers are expensive these days. I bet most would have charged about the same amount.
Anon 7:11, you contradict yourself back and forth in your own post: You take issue with the cost and blame the district for it because of an expensive attorney, but then ask what the big deal is because it somes out of Fund Balance anyway. What is it, big guy, too much or no big deal? Sounds to me like as long as you are pointing fingers at the distict for some percieved slight, it doesn't matter if your post makes any sense- as long as you get to make noise. Kind of makes it hard to give your argument any crdibility.
Tony was not wrong about the unsigned bag constituting the whole district... this is copy directly from the official minutes:
"DISTRICT 8 – WARDS 15 & 16
The Seal from the ballot bin containing the ballot bag for District 8 was broken at 10:05 a.m. Dan Becker objected to no signatures on the outside of the ballot bag for District 8.
Attorney Renning’s recommendation to the Board was to note Mr. Becker’s objection and to proceed to count the ballots, which was also the recommendation of the State Elections Board."
After the District 8 chairperson and inspectors spoke to the board of canvassars about the unsigned ballot bag the board of canvassars conferred with Attorney Renning... the following is pasted directly from the official minutes:
"Attorney Renning subsequently stated that based on the statements of the chairperson and poll inspectors and based upon his recommendation, which was substantiated by the State Elections Board, the Board of Canvassers will proceed noting Dan Becker’s objection. The board unanimously agreed to go forward with the recount and Mr. Becker again objected."
The second ballot bag for district 8 only contained original ballots that had been recreated. So Tony did not goof, the unsigned bag did constitute all the ballots for district 8 (minus the original ballots that had been recreated --- but only the recreated ballots were counted).
New Voice asks how one would react under the circumstances and I think most people would react the way Shirley Mattox and Frank Tower did during their recount --- asking for a determination of voter intent if not clear and recreating ballots that needed to be-- they didn't try to throw out ballot after ballot.
Others have been in recounts and most do not react the way Mr. Becker did.
I can't name ANYONE who acted as paranoid, angry, and nuts as Becker did.
Anonymous 9:31pm... that about sums it up doesn't it...
The uncanny similarities of the last several anonymous posts makes me wonder how many individuals are actually posting here. There is also a stiking similarity to other posts bashing Dan on other sites, some are signed. Things that make you go Hmmm.
How's that for paranoid? Has this discussion degraded far enough, or would you all like to psychoanalyze Dan's adolescent years.
IF YOU DON'T WANT THIS SH*T TO HAPPEN, GET OFF YOU CONSIDERABLE ASS*S AND VOTE!!! YA BUNCH OF WHINEY CRY BABIES!!! YOU HATE HIM, HE LOST, YOU WIN, WE GET IT.
Whew, I feel better.
There goes anonymous 12:43 again, pissed off because their chosen candidate lost and poking their anonymous fingers at some they think are posting, in doing so making comparisons to people who have signed their names to posts. You are not only ignorant and pathetic but wrong. A finger could be pointed in your direction too and I bet you know which one it is.
Whew! I feel better too.
Does the defensive attitude of Anon 12:43 seem familiar to anyone else? Sounds familiar to me. Kind of like some people who've said they're not going to respond to anonymous postings.
Anon, can you explain for us how more people getting out and voting would have made even the slightest difference in Dan Becker's behavior? No one is responsible for another person's behavior but they alone. How's that for psychoanalysis?
It was very interesting to note that at last night's school board meeting Mr. Becker was observed in attendance seated in the front row taking copious notes. No doubt, his presence portends a future run for a board seat and that he probably does not read ONW editorials.
Who knows - maybe he's taking all those notes to become a male version of Michelle Monte.
Actually, if you watched the replay yet, Monte was taking notes as usual, Becker was sitting with his arms crossed watching the proceedings and talking to the Principal of Franklin.
Anon 1:24, now who is paranoid and thinks they know who is posting what.
As for how would getting off your fat ass and voting made a difference: If more people had voted, statistically, there would have been more of a gap between Weinsheim and Becker eliminating the need for a recount. Had there been say a 15 vote gap, Becker probably would have been less likely to ask for a recount.
Anonymous 11:27, please, explain how having people care about the school district is a bad thing? It isn't as though no one else in the community complains about issues or even the occassional BOE member directly. Monte and Becker certainly don't have the corner on the market for that. But of course we won't complain about Weinsheim now because she is on the winning side and we like to be on the winning side regardless of what's best, don't we?
I guess this community likes annual tax increases with nothing to show for it, decreased instructional time with no quality of instruction improvement, dillapitated buildings, cuts to athletics (oops I mean diverting it to the Rec dept so they can cut the programs back).
While we may have a good district, and potential to be the best, the majority of the current board is the reason we have the problems we do. Cheer or jeer all you want, you can't change the facts.
You can blather on about statistics all day long. The race would still have been very close. Nothing changes the fact Becker acted like a jerk during the recount when he didn't need to. Stop being so angry about everything people say.
Anonymous 9:19 you are not being very logical. You can't complain about tax increases and then also complain about "dillapitated buildings, cuts to athletics (oops I mean diverting it to the Rec dept so they can cut the programs back)." It takes money for these things and if you don't want to pay for them you can't also complain when money isn't spent on them... that is simple economics.
ANONYMOUS 9:19 - What exactly are you talking about when you are referring to "annual tax increases with nothing to show for it, decreased instructional time with no quality of instruction improvement, dillapitated buildings?" I am not an educator but when you compare districts which are demographically similar and evaluate the combination of test scores of the OASD and the enlightened program offerings that make a difference in the lives of kids and families in this community, a reasonable person must certainly conclude that not only do we in your words "have a good district", but are quite honestly doing it at a very reasonable cost to taxpayers. I am sick and tired of people and comments typified in your posting which bash education and rail against the BOE, teachers and administrators while offering nothing constructive. The recently voted out BOE member found it easy to say "no" to everything. Rarely did I see him be an advocate for children or education. There are many problems and needs in the OASD and not much money to address them. If anything, the problem with the current BOE and its' recent predecessors was their inability to make and stick with tough decisions - instead they regularly bowed to whatever pressure/interest group organized and brought 10 people to its' meetings to complain about NIMBY. The worst thing that I can say about the BOE is that it needs a spine - not that they spendthrifts or uncaring individuals. Spend some time volunteering in the OASD schools - it will be a revelation - you will quickly come to see that there are far too many children and families at risk to whom the OASD is the only community organization available to address their needs...In my view, we should be thankful and appreciative of the many excellent and caring educators in Oshkosh who are the only lifeline for many of these children.
Anon 1:45, you have presented excellent points. I would not look for an answer from the other person though. I have noticed that people like them talk a bunch of B.S., carry a big stick to smash over people's heads, but when challenged on specific points or asked very pointedly to back up their comments, they tuck tail and run.
Anonymous 9:11 it is not the recount that has me worked up. It was the arrogance put forth by Dan Becker. A person can be part of a recount and not act like that. Don't spin this in a differnet direction than I think many people mean it.
The most disturbing thing is that even as a supporter, it is not easy to understand what appeared to be behavior best compared with that of a school yard bully. The "character issue" as portrayed by the Northwestern was probably the most surprising thing that was learned by watching the recount drama play out. I believe that is the real reason why there may be some issues with future electability.
I'm thinking the behavior was a result of just not being able to believe that the voters were not overwhelmingly supporting him, just not being able to believe he lost. That is when real character comes out, under the difficult circumstances. I agree with the writer who said they didn't see him being an advocate for children, I didn't see that either. I hope the voters remember all of this next year.
It looks like Anonymous 2:00 was right about some of these imbiciles who attack others with false statements but clam up when asked to defend their comments with proof. Someone else likened those lost souls to schoolyard bullies. That description works for me.
I think the biggest bullies are those that demand pay raises from a district that simply cannot afford to go above and beyond nor keep up with the Jones's. I watched the most recent meeting where they were talking about administrators getting 4.2% instead of 3.8%. Though I don't always agree with Schneider, I do agree that it would be nice to give them what they are asking, but we don't have the money and 3.8% is pretty nice compared to what the average employer hands out.
I took offense at Mrs. Bowen being willing to just cut them a check with no analysis of affordablility for the people paying the bills. If you can come up with the money, pay them what they are worth. If you can't, don't shortchange my child so a district administrator can buy a nicer suit. There has to be a limit or we will end up like Florence county and Markesan, operating year by year under the expectation of closing.
They said it would only be a $18000 difference between the percentages, but that is this year only. Then add $18000 on to that next year, and the years after because we a re setting a precedent you can't go back from.
Mrs. Bowen keeps threatening that if we can't keep up with neighboring districts with administrator salaries, we will lose some good ones. How good are they holding our district hostage? What if someone better and more capable of getting our district where we want it is out there and we are cow-towing to this crowd? I say, don't let the door hit you where the good lord split you. Be grateful or brush up your resume. This is the Oshkosh Area School District, not the Heilmann or Bowen Area School District.
Better to be in the hands of others than a Monte.
The 4.2% you refer to is NOT a pay raise, it is the total package, all benefits and pay raise combined would be equal to 4.2% overall to the group, some individuals would get a greater percentage, some a lesser percentage. The fact people don't want to face is the district competes with other school districts for its employees and Oshkosh doesn't compare too well in either salary or benefits with the surrounding districts, what you do find are new administrators who will work in Oshkosh for a couple of years, get the needed experience to then move on to a district where they plan to stay. Ask any businessman, turnover is very expensive. We have had several elementary schools with a new principal each year for three years in a row. If we aren't careful we will become simply the training ground for administrators in the Fox Valley. Also, there is a shortage of administrators in Wisconsin so the district should be grateful for those who chose to stay here. Yes, I know, they get 40 applications for a single position, but you know what, I could apply even though I do not have any of the qualifications necessary for the job, it is still an application. How many applications are received from qualified candidates? I believe that number would be much less than 40.
Absolutely correct Mrs. Thiel. When confronted with facts and questions that challenge their asinine comments, these boobs always back down.
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